[personal profile] tangaroa
6:00 before the debate, Chris Matthews does Trump's job for him by saying that he could point at Clinton and one of his rape accusers and say "he raped her"

6:01 Rachel Maddow joins in! Apparently the Trump campaign announced the rape accusation earlier in the day.

6:03 MSNBC mentions that people consider the Trump campaign to be over.

6:05 questioner complains the last debate was NSFW.

6:06 Clinton "looking for ways to celebrate our diversity" and segues into call for increased school funding, ignores the question

6:08 Trump agrees with Clinton, says that "Make America Great Again" means getting rid of Obamacare and the Iran deal.

6:10 Trump panders to "the African Americans who are so great" and Latinos

6:10 Moderators remind them what the question was!

6:10 Trump denies he said what he said in the recording that has been in the news all weekend, tries to change the subject to ISIS.

6:11 Moderators ask Trump to put a denial on the record, Trump refuses and changes the subject.

6:14 Clinton complains that Trump rates women's attractiveness on a scale of 1-10 like everyone else including all women.

Early scores:

Clinton: F
Trump: F
MSNBC: F
Moderators: B


6:17 Second question, moderators ask Trump how the campaign has changed him. Trump replies by attacking Bill Clinton's moral scandals and Clinton's defense work for the rapist back in the '70s. Audience applauds.

6:19 Clinton accuses Trump of going low, claims to be above that. Audience applauds.

6:20 Clinton says Trump attacked (Saqib?) Khan's family over their religion, attacked a Latino judge over his race (wasn't he a member of a radical group?), claims Trump never apologised for the birther movement that he held a press conference to reject

6:21 Trump brings up vicious commercials involving Michelle Obama

6:23 Trump promises to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate Hillary Clinton.

6:24 Clinton claims everything Trump said was false, audience boos

6:24 Trump promises Clinton will be in jail, audience cheers.

Remembering that the question was how has the campaign changed you, neither addressed the question.

Clinton: F
Trump: F


6:25 moderator asks about the email scandal. Clinton takes responsibility for "using a personal email account" which is very understating. Clinton talks about "misleading accusations", claims "no evidence that anyone hacked the server" and "no evidence ... that any classified material ended up in the wrong hands".

6:28 Trump interrupts Clinton after the moderators tell him not to, at least three times

6:29 Trump asks the moderators why they haven't brought up the emails... after they did.


Next question is how will you bring down the cost of medical care.

Both Trump and Clinton refuse to answer first. Clinton has to answer, says "I'm gonna fix it" and promotes policies that expand benefits without explaining how to pay for them.

6:32 Trump "It's such a great question" and "Obamacare is such a disaster" wants to replace it with something that works, calls for allowing insurance companies to compete across state lines (do they not already?), offers block grants for medicaid

Both Trump and Clinton interrupt the moderators.

Clinton: F
Trump: F+ because he gets credit for proposing something that could conceivably reduce costs


6:38 Next question is about Islamophobia and how to avoid labeling Muslims as threats.

Trump agrees, says Muslims have to report problems when they see them. Implicit reference to CAIR telling people not to report. Complains Clinton and Obama won't use the term "radical Islamic terror".

Clinton says "violent jihadist terrorists" to prove she can.

Moderators ask Trump whether or not he still calls for a ban on immigration from Muslim countries.

Trump changes the subject to "Captain Khan is an American hero" and says that he would be alive today if Trump were president back then. Moderator asks him to answer the question, he refuses.

Moderators ask Clinton about whether importing "Syrian" "refugees" is a good idea. Clinton blames the Syrian war on Russian aggression.

6:46 Clinton says Trump supported the war in Iraq and they have it on video, Trump denies it and reminds her that she voted for the war.

Clinton: D
Trump: D


Next question is about Wikileaks release of Clinton's paid speech where Clinton admitted having a public and private position on issues. Is it acceptable for a politician to have a private stance on issues? It doesn't matter, it's normal.

Clinton credits Abraham Lincoln for the quote.

6:49 Clinton says Wikileaks is part of a Russian hacking program to influence the election. I wouldn't be surprised. Clinton goes after Trump's tax returns.

6:51 Trump: "Honest Abe never lied."

6:51 Trump: "I know nothing about Russia. I know nothing about the inner workings about Russia." If you manage to get elected, please find someone who does.


Next question is what specific tax provisions will you change to insure the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share?

Trump promises to get rid of interest (carried interest provision?), blames Clinton for not fixing the tax code while she was a Senator, claims Clinton is "raising your taxes really high"

6:55 Clinton says Trump's tax cuts are bigger than Bush's and will include increased taxes on the middle class. Clinton says she voted for closing a loophole that Trump took advantage of.

Moderator asks if Trump used his writeoff to avoid paying personal income taxes, he says of course I do

6:59 Trump says "depreciation is a wonderful charge, I love depreciation"

7:00 Trump is somehow talking about ISIS now

7:00 Clinton points out that Bush was president when she was in the senate, Trump interrupts Clinton again.

7:01 Clinton talks about childhood adoption, healthcare for 9/11 responders, other Senate accomplishments. Sounds prepared. "400 pieces of legislation have my name on it."


Moderators go on to Syria, mention the questionable video of the dusty boy in a chair, says the State Department calls for war crimes investigation of Syria and Russia for bombing Aleppo, moderators compare that to the Holocaust while Clinton's people are beheading entire communities thousands of people at a time.


Trump on nuclear power: "Russia is new in terms of nuclear. We are old... Very bad." He talks like a six year old.

Moderator says the question was what would you do about Syria and the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo, reminds them that Pence called for the use of military force against Syria.

Trump: "He and I haven't spoken and I disagree"

The moderator argues with Trump over whether the military should announce its strikes a month ahead of a time.

The moderator asks Clinton to use military force to keep Syria from taking back Aleppo, Clinton says she won't use ground forces but will use special forces.

Clinton says she will consider arming the Kurds. Haven't we been doing that for years?


Next question do you believe you can be a devoted President to all the people?

Trump goes all over the place and has trouble completing a sentence.

Clinton talks about loving children and families. Since the moderators have broken Godwin let's call this her kinder kuche kirche speech.

Clinton blames Trump for an increase in childhood bullying.


Moderator brings up Clinton's basket of deplorables statement and asks how can you unite a country if you have written off tens of millions of Americans. Clinton accuses Trump of running a campaign of hatred and has apparently never met one of her online supporters.


Moderator brings up Trump's tweeting at 3AM as an example of bad discipline, Trump changes the subject to Benghazi and denounces Sidney Blumenthal as "not a good guy".


Clinton overtalks the moderators, Trump joins in. Audience laughs at them.

Next question is what is the most important aspect in selecting a Supreme Court justice.

Clinton wants to appoint justices "who understand how the world really works".

Trump praises Justice Scalia and promises to appoint judges like Scalia, somehow changes the subject to how he is his funding his own campaign.


Next question about energy policy.

7:30 Trump: "Energy is under siege by the Obama administration" that sounds like the plotline to an 1980s video game. Trump promotes "clean coal", complains about the EPA.

Clinton mentions China dumping low cost steel, implies Trump is responsible.

Clinton calls natural gas a bridge to renewable fuels. huh?


Next question is would either of you name one positive thing that you respect in one another? Audience applauds.

Clinton offers Trump the opportunity to go first, he doesn't. Clinton says "I respect his children" and "that says a lot about Donald."

Trump credits Hillary as a fighter who doesn't quit and doesn't give up.




Overall score:

augh
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